Welcome to the Defender podcast. A resource to help mobilize and equip the Body of Christ to manifest the Gospel to orphans and vulnerable children. This podcast is a ministry of the Lifeline Church Services, and I'm your host, Herbie Newell. Well, it's Wednesday, January 10th, 2024 And Doctor Rick and I are coming to you from Birmingham, Alabama. And we are grateful to have a dear friend, a dear sister in Christ, and someone who we had the great privilege of calling a close colleague for many years. Chelsea. Sobolik and Chelsea is coming and she is going to just update us on her journey. Last time we talked to her, she and her husband Michael were on the adoption journey of Little Dev from India, and now they are on their way home. And you may know Chelsea not only from her time at Lifeline, but also from her time with the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, where she worked for many years on Capitol Hill. And currently she is the director of government relations at World Relief, a global Christian humanitarian organization and the largest evangelical refugee resettlement in the U.S.. At World Relief, she seeks to empower the local church to serve the most vulnerable, and she works on public policies that touch internationally displaced people, refugees and migrants. But also, Chelsea is the author of many books, including Longing for Motherhood, Holding On to Hope in the Midst of Childlessness. Her writings appear in the Wall Street Journal, USA Today, National Review, Christianity Today, the Gospel Coalition, Desiring God, Risen, Motherhood, and so many other outlets. And so today, what a great privilege to have Chelsea. So but join us, who is now on the other side of childlessness with being a mom and getting to see Michael be a dad. Want to take a quick timeout to talk about international adoption scholarships here? Lifeline. We want to remove barriers so that families can say yes to God's call to adoption. We realize that finances can be one of the largest barriers to a family beginning an adoption journey. So we're grateful for the Hope Adoption Fund, which provides financial assistance to families. Because of the generous donors, we're able to offer an extension on the $1,000 scholarships available to families applying for international adoption. As long as you apply before January 31st, 2024, families can begin the adoption process and apply for the scholarship by visiting you can the shownotes for the link. So that's lifeline child dot org begin dash your dash adoption dash journey dash today or check it out in the show notes. Now on to our episode. Chelsea, thanks for joining us. And I think it's this time now that we get to bring on the venerable Dr. Rick as well. Dr. Rick, we're just so excited to have Chelsea back on the podcast, and we can at least pretend just for today that we're all working together, right? Absolutely. Well, she's never far and and is always a, you know, feels like a part of her team because she's such a valued friend. You know, you guys know what a crybaby I am. And so I'm starting already. Right? But this is like so this is so cool too because goodness, Chelsea, I feel like that that this had a front row seat to seeing God do some pretty amazing things in your life and in your heart. To go back to to go back to before Michael to go back to, you know, to, to meeting you in DC and you know, even before you LC and all that sort of stuff. And you know, just knowing the journey that the words had you on and so you're now a wife and a mom and then like all of all these amazing things that God has, has, has written into your story and just I'm so grateful for your vulnerability for it. Thank you for that. For being vulnerable enough to to write your thoughts and to and to share about the things that the the the things that the Lord has done and accomplished and the things that you've wrestled through over time. And so to to get to to come to the place where we're today talking about you're not you're not longing for motherhood anymore. Your mom and and your mom, too. A pretty amazing war God to have. And so welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining us to talk to us about like. Where are you today? What's it like? Well, it is just wonderful to be back. And I count you both as just the dearest of friends. So it's great to great to be back. So a little bit of back story. We Michael and I started the adoption process in spring 2012. We all know what was happening. It's perfect timing. You know, perfect timing. But honestly, Cobra gave us the space to be able to have some of those really big conversations. And I mean, for anyone who's ever walked through or walked alongside someone, an induction process, there's so many big things you need to think through and talk to and pray through. And so we really began having some of those conversations. And I will say, I knew even before we knew the message, even before you figured those things out, we knew we wanted to adopt from Lifeline. I respected Lifeline for years and years and worked alongside you and with you for four years. And so that was truly a decision we didn't even have to make because it was already made for us. And I say that because one of the biggest things about walking through an adoption process, it's such an intimate and almost invasive process. I mean, a social worker knows more about our lives that, you know, almost from your finances to your mental, all these different aspects. And so we really wanted it was really important to us to pick an agency lifeline that shared our values, our Christian values. So we really started having those conversations and 2020 started the process. We were we ended up moving. We live in the D.C. area. We moved from D.C. to Virginia about five miles and had to completely redo our home study because we cross state lines. That delayed us a little bit, but we were matched with our son. We chose India, we were adopting from India. We were matched with our son in September, the end of September 2022. And then we traveled to India, September 2023. And this is such a cool the is so cool and how we worked out some of the details. But we the day we brought our son Dev home with us from the orphanage was actually Michael's birthday and our son's passport appointment before we went to apply for his passport. It was a year to the day that we were matched with him and we said yes. So we were and we might get into this. We were in India a little bit longer to hit, dissipated, but even a couple of months removed. While it was very hard in the moment, I see so many of the benefits of being there a little bit longer. So we came home the end of October, so we've been home a couple of months now and settling in as a family of three and it's. Hard and beautiful the hardest and the best thing I've done for sure, all wrapped up into a tiny two and a half year old. Well, Chelsea, I mean, I hate I hate jumping right into it. But let's get into it. Right. The a lot of a lot of your journey has been hurry up and wait. Unfortunately, you know, from a from a schedule of of an American that is a professional that that has done so many different things. We hate waiting. We we like getting things done now. We like getting it checked off our to do list. I know you two, you and I suffer from the same thing of get it off, get it out, get it done. Yes. But I remember I was even in DC with you on Capitol Hill when you got the call for getting your match. And and I remember even we were able to walk to the Iraqi offices and I walked into the coffee shop to let you and Michael have that moment of getting to to hear that you'd be matched with Dev. And yet it took a whole year for you to be able to travel, which was not what we had expected, not what anybody expected. And then, like you mentioned, you were in-country much longer than you expected, but. Outside of not liking waiting like no one does. What were some of the things that the Lord taught you? Or just what did you learn in the waiting that has been invaluable to the process, to the days that you're living in right now? Oh, gosh, there's so much I mean, first of all, and this is I mean, this is something I have to remind myself of all the time. But when you're in the middle of waiting, especially when it's for something you really want and the waiting is taking much longer than you ever anticipated, I think it can be tempting for me to think it's a wasted time or it's just it's just plain hard. And I have to constantly remind myself in those seasons of really difficult days or really prolonged waiting seasons, that it's not wasted time and that God is not only present in those times. I mean, of course, we know and remember we're never forsaken. But so he's not only present with us, he's also working in that time. And I'll be honest, there have been times where I have no I have no clue what on Earth God is up to in those moments, in those seasons. But that's one of the beauties of, you know, having some time and being able to look back and see, okay, I can begin to see what the Lord was doing here. And I mean, there are seasons of my life where I've seen glimpses of that and I don't think I'm going to understand fully until eternity what what God was up to. But I mentioned we were in India. No longer Dev's passport took took longer than we anticipated. And in the moment, I mean, we were on the other side of the world without family, without friends. It was just me, my husband and Deb in a hotel room. And I already just a couple months removed from that can see we had five weeks of uninterrupted bonding time with Deb. And again in the moment it was hard. We were it was just hard. But even having a couple of months of perspective, it has made our transition home so much easier because he knows Michael and I and he began to trust us and to know that we're his mom and dad. And we spent hours every day just sitting on the floor and playing and all these different things. And so I think the two biggest things I constantly and learning and really learning and re remembering are that it's not wasted time and it can feel that way, especially when, you know, I had my timeline for things and this and that. It's not wasted time and the words always I think it was John Piper that said the Lord's always doing 2000 things and we're aware of five of them. And so learning to trust that God is is is working for our good in those moments, I think and I need to remind myself of this constantly because I forget it. But and those words are easy to say with a little bit of time removed, but the moments are hard to and and that's okay that it's hard because scripture gives us prayers to pray in hard moments. And I mean, you read the Psalms and David cries out to the Lord and seasons of waiting and tells God how hard it is. And so two things can be true. Something can be hard, and we can feel that. We can feel the hardness of that. But it can also be true that God is is working not only in that situation, but on us, in our character in those moments to. Yeah. I think, you know, I as I'm listening to you talk just about about your experience, I was I was kind of I was taken back to to a moment in our in our first adoption with Eric and and it being in one of those moments where. Denise was making fun of me. I have to say so. It's like I have to tell it fully. I was. Oh, man. Just wanting to make stuff happen. Right. Like and and, you know. And, Chelsea, I know you well enough to know, you know, when you're when you're kind of catalytic as a personality and you sort of you want to make stuff happen that, you know, those are those are tough times when when you're completely helpless and and at the behest of someone else. And, you know, I just remember I was like I was having one of those moments and, you know, she lovingly used sarcasm and just put her hand on my shoulder and said, Hey, this is driving you crazy. And and and and it was it was one, you know, but it was in one of those moments of helplessness, just having that awareness to be driven to a place where where your perspective is, is on like undeniably altered. Right. Like, you see, we see who we really are before the Lord. We see we see, you know, what we really are and we see our dependance. And so I'm I'm just curious in, in, you know, negotiating the roadblocks and in in dealing with the stuff that you kind of came face to face with through the process of of getting to dev and, you know, starting this this phase of your life. You ran up on some stuff that you couldn't. You couldn't. There was no force of will. There was no anything. And and you saw you know, you saw your dependency upon God. How would you encourage other people that are sitting in that right now? What would you say about because I thought it was beautiful, what you said about the tension that that we live in and the reality of of, you know, of of realizing it and seeing the beauty in it, even when we even we have to admit we don't like it either. And so, you know, how would you encourage somebody else if you just were pulling up a chair and a cup of coffee right now and and saying, hey, this is this is tough and and you're helpless, but it's okay. I think there's there's two things I would say that have been just incredibly helpful for us. Number one, I mean, anyone who's walking in caring for vulnerable children and families, whether that's. You know, welcoming a child home through adoption or being involved. But whatever that looks like for you, we're always holding the attention of the good and the hard together with the beauty and the brokenness together. And so, I mean, so much of life is that tension. And walking through a roadblock or walking through it on 80% feels like sometimes we're always holding that tension and almost to make peace with. And I can speak for myself. I also often think, okay, if I can just get excited, see that, then things will be easier. Or if we just get through this season, then we'll have peace and almost to make peace with. That's not guaranteed. That's not a promise. And if we keep waiting to get through the next thing to have peace, we're we're never going to have it. And so figuring out how to trust the board in the middle of. Of the journey. And it's hard. It's so hard. But, you know, releasing control of how we thought things would be. Expectations versus reality can often trip us up into releasing. Really learning to trust the board in the middle. And then the heart and the roadblocks and learning to hold. So much of that tension together. And then the second huge thing, I would encourage someone. We cannot do this alone. We were never built to walk the Christian faith alone. We need we need the church community. We need brothers and sisters to hold our arms up when where we want to collapse. So we're so tired and we're so weary and we're frustrated and exhausted. We need the body of Christ. And even though in India, we were physically removed from our church community, praise God for technology, we could still face time and call and text with our community. And I mean, we had our dearest friends in D.C. checked in on us every single day and asked how we were doing. And most days it felt more like complaining. But we were able to say, honestly, today was really hard because of this or today. So it was actually a good day or, you know, all those things. But we need the body of Christ walking beside us. And in those moments reminding us of what is true, even when we might feel like our prayers are bouncing up against the ceiling. And, you know, it's coming right back. We need we need the faith of others when our feels weak. And so the two things I'd say are lean heavily on community and be good community for other people and then, you know, make peace with it. So much of life was tension. And then and that's okay because I mean, so much of what we read in the Bible is holding, you know, the already in the not yet the promises that we have and working that out on earth. So those are the two big things that I think I'm having. Great shame when we're. Now that's so deep and so rich and is a reminder for all of us, no matter what we're doing. Waiting is an inevitable part, and it's hard. Roadblocks are inevitable to whatever we're doing. But especially when you're longing and have been longing for this child who you know their name and you know where they are. And each day feels like an insurmountable task and like something that you're missing. Just I hope that that so many parents that are waiting right now and have been longing in the same way you and Michael have will hear those words and let the truth of God's word and the truth of God's promises wash over them. Waiting is difficult. Waiting is hard. But oh, the goodness of God and the mercy of God. And, you know, even as we've just come past the Advent season and Christmas season to know the the the waiting that the children of Israel had 400 years of silence where it felt like the Lord was not speaking, but yet their Christ burst onto the scene, the Messiah, the Savior of the world. And I know even for us on this side, life can feel like waiting is never going to end as we're waiting, even for for Christ to come back and for the hardship of this world to end. But take heart, beloved. We have a savior who knows what it means to comfort us and to help us and to be with us and to grow us. So to talking about all the waiting and you mentioned it a little bit at the beginning, but I'd love just to talk about just the joy of the reality. What is it been like watching Michael, your husband, be a dad? And what is it been like to be a mom that you wrote longing for now that that longing has been fulfilled? What is it? What is it like? And and I'd even maybe ask as well. And for those who don't know, Chelsea herself was adopted by her family. How is it even opened up? May be that the journey that your family went through to bring you home. Oh, my gosh. So let's just say I'll try to be quick, but man, it is just the best thing to watch Michael be a dad is anyone that knows him, knows he has the biggest heart on planet Earth and he's just the best dad. And it's so cool to see them relate to me and to Michael differently. And just such a reminder that kids need a mom and a dad. They need both parents. And my role in Dev's life is different than Michael's role in Doug's life. So it's been really sweet to get to step into parenthood together, but also get to be a mom and a dad to Deb. And that's all so simplistic, but it's true. I mean, kids need a mom and a dad to. You know, that's how God designed it. But, man, it's so sweet. That is just we are constantly blown away by how this kid is so confident. Is this the. We are just absolutely smitten with him and going back to the beauty and brokenness. I mean, we adopted dad when he was two and a half. And so both being so joyful that we are now with him. But there have been so many moments where I've sat and rocked him to sleep and just cried because I we didn't get to have the baby snuggles then. We didn't. There's two and a half years of his life that we weren't present with. And and grieving and grieving. It is a loss for. For us and and for him. He was in the orphanage before and entrusting those. What feel like missing years and trusting those the Lord and knowing that we weren't present as His parents, but God was present in His story and God never left her first. So thanked him and so holding that even now those it's such a there's all I think there's beauty in adoption, but there's also hard things and so continuing to hold those together even as it grows up and helping him navigate his story. I will say I like you mentioned, I was adopted from Romania and grew up with five other siblings who are adopted. And I mean, I've always had so much respect from my parents on a million levels. But walking through, traveling internationally and bringing a child home internationally made a 15 hour flight home. I mean, that alone, it gives me any respect. But I only just knowing, I think now as a parent, you really beginning to realize how much self-sacrifice goes into every aspect of raising a child, whether it's getting up three or five times during the night and you're exhausted or retooling your finances to, you know, financially just so many different ways. But I just have my respect and esteem for them. Has just. So through the roof and I can. I've always respected that. Walking through a similar journey to become a parent has been really cool. And I love obviously Dad and I are from different countries and have different stories, but how we both join our family is the same. It's through international adoption. And so he'll always know his mom in some way knows what it's like to join the family through adoption. And I'm really excited to get to share that with Dev and talk through that with the mom, decide what it's like. And yeah, there's, there's so many things that I think one of the biggest things that I'm learning and I'm sure I'll always be learning a friend told this to me if it's not original to me, but hard doesn't equal bad. There's so many hard things we experience in India. We experience in the waiting process we've already experienced being parents of. We went from zero children to having a toddler. I think that's hard, but it's not bad. And I mean, the best things in life are hard and they should be because they take work and refinement and all of these different things. So I mean, for anyone listening, whatever hard looks like for you right now, you know, it's not bad, it's just hard. And there's so many things in life that are hard. But I mean, parenthood is simultaneously the best thing in the entire world and the hardest thing all at once. You know, I'm just I was sitting here listening to your you answer that last question. And this is one of those times when I really agree that this is not a video podcast because the the joy on your face is just amazing. It's it's so fun to see just, you know, the what the what the Lord has given you and seeing you talk about Michael and about him becoming a dad, we, you know, he's he is genuinely. Let's just be honest. He is genuinely the nicest person any of us know. So he. I'm biased. Yes. But I mean, he really is. And so, you know, to just imagining seeing the the fun and the joy in him being able to, you know, invest that in Dev's life has got to be something that's, you know, that's fun to to sit and and to, you know, just just to be part of. I think, you know, part of the reality, though, is that I think somebody somebody told me one time that life is nothing more than a series of renegotiations. You know, that like we're like we found or, you know, we found our journey with the Lord through life as as just we're kind of changing it, adapting and renegotiating to, you know, circumstances and things. And and you're in the midst of, you know, renegotiating to some pretty some pretty incredible and some pretty joy filled circumstances. But nonetheless, you know, there are changes and renegotiation. And and one of the things that is, you know, that we love about you is the fact that that you're really thoughtful about how you go about all of this. Part of what has made you a great writer and and has, you know, has allowed you to to be able to develop that part of yourself is the fact that you really do kind of think deeply and bring those things in. And and and so one of the things that you did along the way while you were in the midst of the adoption process, was you wrote another book about about work. And, you know, and and kind of thinking from the perspective of of a woman, you know, a gospel vision for women and work. The book is called Cold Call to Cultivate. And and so it just a really beautiful reflection on thinking about, you know, God's purpose in in in creation. And and you talked about a little bit of those differences and what you've seen in parenting between, you know, a mom and a dad. And, you know, how men and women are different. But we're also different in in how we produce and and what we do and how we work. And there's, you know, that's that's rooted in God's design. And there's ultimately redeemed by the gospel, like everything else. And and so your reflections about that have to be a little different today than they were when you were writing the book is your balance and Motherhood. And, you know, and being a wife and all these other roles that are so important to you in life, well, like kind of through the lens of that book, bring us forward a little bit. And and what is it like today balancing, you know, the world of work and productivity and ministry and all that alongside the ministry that the Lord's given you and in the life of this, you know, awesome world. Boy, all those years. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot to say there that I wrote about in the book. And this certainly applies to all women who are working, which is all women. But I mean, some women work inside the home, some women work outside the home and some a combination of the two and some women work inside the home for a season and then step back. And so one of the biggest differences of men and women in more traditional professional workplaces is after men have children. It's expected that men go back to work. But then women, there's a lot of different considerations for women, whether that's, you know, a naptime puzzle, staying home or you know, going back part time. There's just so many different other considerations women have, the men do in the workplace. But the through line of the book and what I really wanted to emphasize is that, I mean, from the very beginning of time, humans have been a working people, and women have always played a vital role in the flourishing of their churches, their communities, their families and the kingdom of God through their work and women's work matters. And so I think that concept of seasons, I think, for women especially, is really helpful because it helps us think. Not in this, you know, 50 years. What is my calling? But I mean, the calling of every Christian is the same, but still love God and love neighbor. But what is this? This season of life dictate? How does faithfulness in the season of life look like? And that changes pretty frequently, to be honest. Like you said, I just stepped into motherhood. So there's a lot of things that are shifting in all areas of life. But I actually just finished a book, a biography of Elizabeth Elliott. And one of the things that struck me about her life is her calling Never Change, but her assignments did. She has three different husbands in her lifetime. She lived in South America and then the United States and her life shifted in huge ways. But her calling to to to faithfully follow Christ never changed. And so that's true of me. That's true of you. That's true of any man and woman who who works, which is the majority of humanity that are calling truly never change. And it's it's the same. But what faithfulness of wisdom look like in different seasons? And that's hard. I mean, it's hard in a lot of situations when, you know, maybe a woman wants to stay home, but financially she needs to work part time. And there's there's some really hard, tough conversations there. But one of the cool things about living in 2024 is we can drive Uber on, you know, after bedtime or do Instacart or there's different ways to cobble together, you know, extra income if a family needs it. Does it look like it did even five years ago? But kind of stepping into a new role, I mean, there's so much that's changed. But the through line of my life and really all of our lives is a through line of faithfulness. Well, Chelsea, we're we're so grateful and thankful for your life and for your faithfulness and just so grateful that we get to celebrate even the coming together of your family. But as we close, I'd just love for you to talk a little bit about this new book, even the new experiences, how you've already seen it, making an impact in the lives of women. What are ways that you've already seen the fruit of that labor that that that labor to write down these thoughts and and to put down these encouragements. How do you already start to seen it work in the lives of women? I think one of the biggest questions, women either vocally or just internally ask one another or I think in our heads is how does she do it all? And the reality is, no one does it all. And what I I've had a lot of conversations on on social media after love, but just having other women realize just the beauty of working faithfully with excellence where God has called you. And I hope that gives women a lot of freedom to not feel like they have to have it all figured out. Because, I mean, really, none of us have figured out and the freedom that none of us can have at all, at least not all at once. And I think just I've heard from women that it has given them some freedom to think through, you know, shifting things around to prioritize family in the season. Or maybe a single woman is prioritizing work a little bit more in this season. But I love the concept of riding a bicycle because women talk a lot about balancing everything and you can't balance everything because everything shouldn't get equal amounts of our time, energy and attention. But when you're riding a bicycle, your weight shifts to ride a bicycle, to balance a bicycle, to go forward. And life is kind of that way. And helping give women almost a roadmap of here's how to balance. You put different emphasis on different areas to be able to move the bicycle of your life forward, if that makes sense. So I hope it gives women a lot of freedom in multiple different areas to be freed up from feeling this burden of How do I do it all? How do I do all those different things to just say, Where's God put me today? How can I do excellent work where I am today? How can I love and serve others today and entrusting, you know, tomorrow to God? So I've heard and I hope it continues to give women freedom and to free them from those. The guilt that we often place on ourselves. Well, Chelsea, you have been so keen to take time to spend a lot of time visiting with us, for us to be able to catch up. It's it's been fun. As you know, as I said to, you know, be able to stop and just very calm a little bit about what the what the Lord's done. But I want to end and and just kind of peer into one more one more thing. Anybody that knows you, anybody knows Michael. They know that there's one there's one other person that's part of your household that's pretty much a fixture. And that's that's Lionel, your cat, who is a part of every meeting and is is a part of the reality. And so I'm just I'm really curious about, you know, what what do you think Lionel thinks about all of this and what does death think about Lionel? How are we doing? How are you doing? If this was a video podcast, you'd see him sleeping. It's so funny. So in India, there's monkeys everywhere and the Hindi word for monkey is babu and that understands what cats are. We would read a book, but when we got home, he kept calling Lionel a babu. And I say, Yes, we have a pet monkey. I mean, same size, long tail. So they're slowly building a friendship that will get so excited that he'll scare Lionel. But death is found where his treats are. So the cat, all the thing. They're going to be the best of buds eventually. But I think there's still things. You might have a pet monkey in our house. That's pretty awesome. That is. That is like. That is so good. Well, I've never I'm never going to be able to look at Lionel the same way. Now I'm going to I'm going to see him. He used to get a hat, maybe a little hat. You know, you could maybe have a little organ grinder kind of thing going on. That'd be a great, you know, maybe that's maybe that's his Halloween costume this year. But I will say your favorite. I'm just going to say Desiree stuffed animal is his little great cat, though. So I'm very proud that that's what he's chosen. He is following. He is following you. Yes. Yes. Train up a child. There you go. Well, hey, we're it's been such a privilege just to be able to have a little bit of time with you and to catch up. And and so we got you got to promise we got to do this again. We'll we'll we'll we'll check in with you again soon and and get a review on how you guys are doing. But thanks for being with us. Thanks for having me. It's been it's been a delight. Thanks for listening to the Defender podcast. If you enjoy making this podcast a part of your weekly routine, we'd love for you to take a moment to subscribe, rate and review the Defender podcast to make it easier for more people to find. For more information on how you and your church can partner with Lifeline, visit us at Lifeline Child. If you want to connect with me, please visit Herbie Newell.com Follow us at Lifeline on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter by Searching for Lifeline Child. You can email us directly at info at Lifeline Child dot org beloved for you our guide to use the Gospel to you to impact the life of a child. Please contact us because we are here to defend the fatherless. We'll see you again next week for the Defender podcast.