Welcome to the defender podcast, a resource to help mobilize and equip the body of Christ to manifest the gospel to orphans and vulnerable children. This podcast is a ministry of Lifeline Children Services, and I'm your host, Herbie Newell.

Hey there. Today is June 5, 2024. I'm Rick Morton, and this is the defender podcast. Well, today we have the opportunity to be able to hear a fantastic heartwarming story, from the Hart family, Amy and Jillian Hart, And that interview is going to be conducted by Carla Thrasher, who's our senior director of international adoption here at Lifeline. And so Carla recently sat down with Amy, an adoptive mom and her daughter, Jillian, who was adopted from China.

They're going to talk about from their perspective their adoption story. Amy is going to reflect on the decision to pursue international adoption. Jillian is going to talk about her experiences as growing up as an adoptee from China. They're going to talk about insights into how to think about cultural heritage. They're going to talk about some incredible things that I think will be richly appreciated by international adoptive families.

But the one thing that's sure in this episode that you're going to hear is the transformative power of love and the importance of resilience in the adoption journey. Amy and Jillian offer words of encouragement and they inspire us to trust God for guidance and to embrace the blessing of adoption. Before we get there, we're going to talk about something special that's happening in Lifeline's life that's important for you. If you've been praying about international adoption, the month of June is an important month. We realize that finances can be one of the largest barriers to moving forward with an international adoption.

That's why we're grateful for the Hope Adoption Fund, which provides financial help to families. Because of generous donors, we're able to offer a $1,000 scholarship this month of June for families that are applying for a full international adoption program. And so if you apply before June 30th, you can qualify for a $1,000 scholarship by beginning the adoption process. You can find out more by visiting lifelinechild.org/begin, or you can visit our show notes for the link. But we're excited today to focus on one family's story of international adoption, the Hart family.

And so let's give a listen as Carlos sat down with them recently to talk about all that the Lord has done in their lives and in their family.

Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Carla Thrasher. I'm the senior director of international adoption here at Lifeline. Excited to be with you guys today, and we've got some really special guests, that I'd love to introduce you to. Amy Hart and her husband, Mike, are 2 time China adopted families through Lifeline Children Services.

And with us today is Jillian, their daughter that they adopted from China. I'll let them give a little more of the specifics, about that, but really excited to have you guys with us here today as we celebrate just international adoption. Just, we have an application push that we're gonna talk more about later, but we're really celebrating and just advocating, for families that pursue international adoptions through Lifeline. Amy, I'll let you start off. Could you walk us through just your and Mike's decision to adopt from China?

How did we get there?

I think, it sounds kinda cliche, but literally from the time I can remember, I always wanted to adopt, like, even in elementary school, any papers that I needed to write, anything. It always kinda centered around adoption. And then in college, I majored in social work, didn't graduate with that degree, but majored in it. And so that had always been something that was laid on my heart and then, you know, of course, Mike and I got married and he and I talked about it, and it it it never he'd never thought about it at all. And so, we were in a position that I feel like lots of couples are, where a lot of times it's the woman that has thought about it and then maybe it's like, what?

You know, it never even entered his mind. And so Mike's like, well, that's not anything that I've ever thought about doing, but I'm happy to explore this with you. And I think we landed on we landed on international because it was important to us. We had 2 children at the time, ages 46, that we wanted to serve in a place that we were needed. Domestically, in a lot of cases, it's like, there's more parents looking for children internationally at the time, and there's more children looking for parents.

And so we were led to that. We wanted to go where the need was, basically. And so did our research of couple different, countries that were an option at that time and, we landed on China. And then one thing I was gonna say that really opened up Mike's heart that that I still think it was really good advice when I was calling around to all different agencies, I don't even remember who I talked to, but somebody that I talked to suggested that we go through a DHR class first to be foster parents. And so we we did that.

That's where we started. And that's where I think Mike's heart really began to open and see, well, there's really a need for parents. That wasn't like being a foster parent. It wasn't necessarily our end goal, and they knew that when we went in. We're like, we're happy to serve how we can, but our hearts are really towards adoption and it this was just suggested to us that we take this class.

And it was actually a really great informative class, and that's what I think brought Mike and I on the same page. And it was the neat thing to do together. I had learned a lot of things in college because social work was my major, but all of it was new

to him.

So to spend that amount of time together in a class, I mean, it was, like, 8 weeks long. I can't remember the amount of hours, but it's free and your county should offer it and and that that was probably the starting point. And and I feel like that was a really, important thing for us to do, and that's that's where we started with that. And we ended up we did use our our foster parent certificate. We fostered for lifeline some, and then we fostered for, the county where we lived in a few times while we're working on our international adoption process.

That's great, Amy. Thank you for sharing that with us. Amy and Mike were one of the very first adoptive families that I worked with when I started here at Lifeline. So they have a special place in our hearts. And, Amy, I love how you shared about the number of waiting children internationally because that is something that we do really continue to share with families that there is such a need, for families to pursue children internationally.

Jillian, we'll turn to you now. Would love for you just to share your experience, growing up in a home as a child that was adopted internationally. And I do wanna say, Jillian, because I know your family well, you are so prayed for. You were so wanted, so loved. And I just wanna share that too because I loved hearing your mom and dad talk about, waiting for you.

But share what it was like growing up in a family being adopted internationally and maybe even focusing a little bit too on how your parents shared your adoption story with you and just your heritage with you.

Yeah. So I was adopted when I was 1. So I was I was really little. And I honestly don't remember much of anything besides just the life that I've had here and the parents that I've had here. And so I never really thought of my family as my adoptive family.

I never thought of my siblings as, oh, they're my, you know, they're my siblings, but not biologically. Mom and dad were mom and dad, and my siblings were my siblings, And that was kind of it for me. I think because I was so young, had probably an impact on kind of how I viewed that. But I've I've gotten to experience life here abundantly. And that's, you know, because of my parents and that the way that they have, you know, pursued Christ and and kind of his guidance in my adoption.

And so I'm eternally grateful for that. But it was never, oh, these are my adoptive parents. It was just mom and dad. You know? It was never like, oh, these are my 2 children plus my one adopted child.

I felt like Right. Like this is, you know, these are my 3 kids or my 4 kids now. And so, I'm really grateful for that. And it just felt like seamless to me to be in their family. And I was just like, mom and dad, brother and sister.

And and that's kinda how it was growing up. And then just kinda, like, culturally, they did put me in mom mom put me in Chinese, like, speaking lessons to try and learn the language, and I hated it. I don't remember learning the language. I just remember I cried, and the only reason I wanted to go is because I got, like, fun snacks when I was there. And so it's something that I appreciated with that.

They didn't force me, but they always were willing to talk about it if I wanted to. I obviously look very different than my parents and my siblings, so I don't I don't ever remember being sat down being told that I was adopted. Mom can probably say if they had that conversation with me or not. But I think I kinda always knew. But I feel like they really kind of had an open door of, if you wanna talk about it, if you wanna learn more about it, we are here to champion you, in that.

And we're here to support you if you wanna know more, but we're not gonna force you to kind of take on this culture, or this heritage or anything like that. Because I, you know, I was growing up in the states and kind of experiencing life here. And because I was so young, I didn't really have this, like, emotional, I feel like tie to the culture or heritage or anything like that.

Thank you for sharing that, Jillian. I love that you brought up too, and you used the word, you know, eternally grateful, and how you were raised in a family, that pointed you to Christ. And I love that because that is our mission and vision here at Lifeline. You know, we are we specifically believe that our space in, in this community is is placing children in homes where they're going to experience the love of Christ and and hear about Jesus, and you just so eloquently expressed that. I also love too just your honesty about, you know, it wasn't really about having to have a lot of heritage or culture, and how it felt, you know, to just be totally immersed, into a family.

And, I think a lot of people will appreciate hearing that. We hear that a lot. You know, we do want children to be exposed to culture and to heritage and to be able to make that choice for themselves. So I appreciate your honesty there. Amy, as I mentioned a little bit earlier, we are in the middle of, an application campaign, where we're really trying to get the word out about international adoption, the number of children that are waiting.

What is some advice you would give a family or a couple that is considering adopting a child internationally?

I would I would just say do a lot of reading, a lot of research, a lot of prayer, a lot of talking to different agencies. You know, we, of course, we use Lifeline and that was that was huge for us to be ministered to and, in in a Christian way throughout the process. And not just that, another thing I didn't think of until I was in the process that was actually cool is when you're in a Christian adoption agency, the other families that are adopt adopting share your same values and your same faith. So there was a lot of bonding there, at the time with other families, and I just thought that that was really cool and maybe not something that I would have thought of so much, the people that we would be traveling with, the people that we would connect with on Facebook, most all had the same shared values. So that was that was really important to us.

And, just talking and and and one thing, Carla, you realize is how important boots on the ground are in the country that you're adopting from. So it's something that if you have never gone through the process before, you might not know to ask because you're you're talking to people in Birmingham or, you know, Georgia, California, wherever, but, like, who are your people over serving in that country that are going to help you? What is their experience? Tell me a little bit about them. So I think those are things that we were so fortunate to have such awesome boots on the ground for us in China and appreciated that so much that I think that would also be an important thing to ask if families are looking into international adoption or in interviewing different agencies.

And just as far as exploring and deciding if it's something that a family wants to do, I would make sure that you're on the same page with your spouse.

Mhmm.

It's not anything that you would want to arm twist or manipulate or anything like that. Like, you need to be on the same page because it it might be a breeze, it may be really hard, and, and it's important. Now you might feel like for Mike and I, you know, I felt like so excited and, you know, you'd see this cute little picture of Jillian and our son, Joseph, and you just can't wait to see him and you bond. And I'm like, oh, honey, don't you just love them or love her? And he'd be like, yeah, she's cute but, you know, I I don't know this child.

And he said, one thing that I can tell you is when I'm there, it'll be game on. But don't expect me to share the same feelings that you share now through the process because the moms are doing a lot and bonding with other people. And, I mean, he'll say to this day, like, the second those kids were placed in his arms. It was no different. Mhmm.

No different at all. But he knew that about himself, that it would need to wait those feelings would need to wait until he got his hands on our children.

Mhmm.

And it's been like that, you know, since since day 1 that they've been in our family. It's like, yeah, no no different.

Yeah. I don't even know where to start, Amy. You just shared so much wisdom. But one thing, I think it's important for our audience to know is that, you know, Amy and her family, you know, as Amy said, they started off as as foster parents and then moved into adopting internationally. What we didn't share, when we did the introductions is Amy actually then really pursued helping, you know, other people become aware of the need, And she actually worked with Lifeline for a little bit as far as recruiting families and helping families through the process.

And it's been great to watch her family just walk out the gospel, you know, over the the past several years and to watch Amy be able to share that with others. And then talking about, you know, boots on the ground, all of our international programs, it's really important to us to have people on the ground that will not only care well for for families, while they're there meeting their children for the first time, but also just also advocating and working well with the government and presenting Lifeline in the best possible light, you know, as as far as the professional side. Amy and her family have also kept in really close contact with a lot of our team in China. And Amy's been instrumental in praying for those families. I mean, those those guides and people on the ground.

So that's just been really neat to see this family really walk out our mission and vision alongside us. Jillian, I'm gonna go off script a little bit and ask you, a question that you may not be prepared for. But after hearing your mom talk about, adopting Joseph, pursuing another adoption, I'd love to know what it was like from your perspective to watch your family to be a part of your family adopting your little brother.

Yeah. It was it was really special to get to watch, the whole process. Obviously, when I was adopted, I wasn't a part of the process of the home studies and all the things that go into the preparation before you even get the child. So to get to see just kind of their dedication and their passion to continue, the process of adoption and then to actually get to go to China and see what it was like to have, you know, a child placed in your arms for the first time. And and Joseph was 3, so he was older, when he was adopted.

And so just getting to be there and be like, that is what my parents did, and that is what they stepped into. And now I get to kind of watch from the sidelines of that's my story too. So it was really special. It's special to get to go over there with them, and and get to go get Joseph with them and see the culture and just kinda see kinda see what my story looked like, older, and now I'm able to appreciate it a lot more. So it was really special to get to do that and to get to see my parents kind of their passion continue in in adoption.

That's neat. That's neat to hear. Amy, I'd love to just pick your brain a little bit on what have been some of the most rewarding times over the years, knowing that you've added to your family through international adoption? And what have been some of the challenging, maybe, times or seasons that you guys have worked through?

Okay. So, Carla, to answer your question about rewarding times and, the harder times, I would say traveling to China to adopt the children was probably the most, the two most rewarding times of my entire life. I mean, hands down, there was there's nothing like it. Like, experiencing a whole different culture, getting this child handed over to you, being in awe of god's goodness of, like, how in the world across the world that he paired us together. I mean, it's it's mind blowing.

It shouldn't be I shouldn't appreciate it more than birthing my own children, but for some reason it just seems like like wow. But, traveling there, it we got to take Jillian back on a heritage trip also. And we actually took my dad and my sister and her entire family. So that was a really, really neat experience. And if anybody is interested in something like that, I'm gonna say a plug and say, contact Carla.

She can hook you up. Because that was really I don't know how it's changed now with COVID. I'm sure it's more limited. But to get to go there with the whole family and the whole extended family was was really special. Jillian would probably say now that we took her too early.

She was, were you 8, Jillian?

Yeah. I was 8 or 9.

She was 8 or 9 and somebody had told us to, you know, go before teenager and and we did, but I I do think it was probably a little bit too soon. Maybe maybe at least 10 would have been better because she doesn't remember a lot of that. So our hope is to one day go back and take Joseph because he still has not been. And then, Jillian can go can go back also. As far as most challenging time, you know, I cannot pinpoint anything that I feel like necessarily would be adoption related.

You know, of course, Dewey goes through hard times with all of our kids where, you know, some are challenging. Except for maybe Jillian. She's been, like, really easy. Like, my oldest is like, mom, has Jillian ever done anything wrong? Like, he jokes because you know but, but, of course, all kids go through things.

And sometimes as adopted parents, I think we wanna point the finger towards everything as adoption related. And that's not necessarily the case. Is there trauma that happened and more obstacles? Absolutely. But it's not always easy to separate.

I mean, I've got a middle schooler right now, you know. Everyday is not easy. So how do we separate, you know, as far as, what's just normal middle school hormones, what could possibly be, you know, something that's bothering him that's adoption related. You know, those are kinda things that's tricky to sort through sometimes. And, you know, maybe your kids don't always wanna talk about it either.

So that can that can be hard, but we try to keep communication open. We just try to talk about adoption just as and we were fortunate to have a lot of families around us that had adopted kids. So I don't feel like we had to have any, like, you know, formal talks about, okay, you were adopted. It was just it always has been like that. I mean, my really good friend had Cal, you know, he had come home when he was I can't 6 years old or so.

And, of course, he was getting to know all the families, all the friends, and then he went over to one friend's house and he came home and he asked his mom, where was there Asian? Because he was so used to being around other families with adopted children that he was so confused that they didn't have and he said, where's there Asian? So we always laugh about that, about what a blessing in our community that we have so many people that have adopted from China. So, I don't know if that answered your question exactly.

It did. You did a good job. And I I love that you had the community of other families, that looked like you guys, you know, that that had adopted internationally, and I know that's so beneficial to families. As I mentioned earlier, we are in the middle of an application campaign, for families that are pursuing international adoption. We are offering $1,000 scholarships that will come off the Families First Agency fee.

So as we close today, Amy, I would just love to know what wisdom would you offer, to anybody that is considering, applying for international adoption?

I think it's it's it's an unknown. It's a faith walk. It takes an assurance that, yes, our family this is something that our family wants to do. I think you need to have that desire. I think you don't walk through that process out of guilt like you should because there's ways that all of us can help international adoption in general.

We can all help, children in need. So I would say listen to your heart and make sure that you're on the same page with your spouse. And that if your hearts are together on this and you feel like the lord is leading you and you're excited about it, Not excited in a naive way, but it's not gonna be hard, but you're but you that you know this is what we're to do. That it's an experience that for us personally has blessed us immensely, and I can't imagine not having my 4 children. And I appreciate Lifeline and all they have done, and you are with a solid agency if this is what you choose to do as far as pursuing international adoption through Lifeline.

Many years of experience and leadership, and you will be lifted up. I always said that Lifeline was a great hand holding agency. Carla, of course, been great. It was great at that for us through, you know, both adoptions and and they hire people that it's their passion and it's their ministry.

Yeah. I said we were closing, but, Jillian, I'm not gonna let you off the hook. Do you have any any wisdom or any encouragement that you would like to share, as families consider adding children to their home through international adoption?

Yeah. I feel like I can't can't speak as much as as mom could have just kind of the prayer that went into, deciding to adopt because I haven't I I hope to adopt one day, but I obviously have not, you know, started my family yet. But just that it is something that is so prayerful. I think, you know, who I am today and why I've gotten to experience the life that I've gotten to experience. And, you know, the ways that I've gotten to experience the gospel is because I believe that my whole adoption was was prayed for the entire time by my parents, by my family, by a friend of family.

Like, I'm so confident that, like, they went into this decision prayerfully, and that looked like the Lord had me for them. And I'm, again, so eternally grateful for that. So stepping into it knowing, like, the father will lead you if you're like, I'm gonna go into this with open hands. And I'm I'm thankful my parents said that, and I I can't put into words, you know, the life that I've gotten to have here and the ways that I believe that I have been truly forever changed. I mean, just knowing the gospel, like, there was no assurance that I would have gone to experience the gospel in China in whatever way I would have, you know, grown up there.

And so just reflecting faithful in this hey. Be faithful in this. And if I'm gonna step into this, like, I'm gonna trust you that you're gonna be faithful in that, and I'm grateful. So I think just from my end that I know it was so prayerful that I, ended up here and got to live the life and got to be in the family that I'm in was no mistake and no accident, and truly just the Lord's faithfulness. So I think stepping into a prayer regardless of the outcome, knowing that, like, if we go in knowing the father's before us, like, we can't we can't have a bad outcome.

So I don't know if that really asked your quest answered your question.

But We almost made it through without getting teary, didn't we, Helen? It did answer. And I love that your mom, you know, when we started the podcast, talked about just being amazed at how how everything felt like you you were made for their family, you know, and then for you to come back and, you know, kinda circle back around here and just talk about knowing that that's because you were prayed for, and the Lord had gone before your family. You know, it's it it you know, adoption is such a picture of the gospel, and I love that you that you speak to that, you know, in your testimony. That's wonderful.

And that's exactly, you know, how we want to promote adoption, Lord has provided for us to see, you know, just the picture of adoption, you know, walked out here on Earth. So thank y'all both so much for being with us today, and, we're just so encouraged to be able to share, this podcast going forward and just hope it's impactful, as there are people out there considering adoption and you've answered a lot of questions I think that people ask going into this process.

Thanks for to make it easier for more people to find. For more information on how you and your church can partner with Lifeline, visit us at lifelinechilddot org. If you want to connect with me, please visit herbynewell.com. Follow us at Lifeline on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter by searching for Lifeline Child. You can email us directly at info at lifelinechild.org.

Beloved, will you allow God to use the gospel to you to impact the life of a child? Please contact us because we are here to defend the fatherless. We'll see you again next week for the defender podcast.