Welcome to the defender podcast, a resource to help mobilize and equip the body of Christ to manifest the gospel to orphans and vulnerable children. This podcast is a ministry of Lifeline Children Services, and I'm your host, Herbie Newell.

Alright. Today is Wednesday, September 11, 2024. I'm Rick Morton, and this is the defender podcast. Well, folks, we're in for a big treat today. I have the opportunity to sit down with a respected friend.

I was going to say a respected colleague, but normally in for a subject like today, I would be sitting down with Lynn Beckett And, Lynn would be the one that I'd be talking to. But today, I have the opportunity to talk to another land who is a dear friend of Lynn Beckett's and somebody that has, has really helped land and influenced her. And they've been they've been quite the partners in crime in some things. And so I'm going to have the pleasure of today talking to Lynn Jackson, who is the co founder of Connected Families. And a lot of you know about Connected Families because of our relationship and partnership with their ministry.

And we just think of them as as dear and trusted friends to Lifeline. And so it's going to be good. But today we're going to be talking about, you know, just back to school and about the beginning of school. But we're also going to be talking a little bit about connected families and about the way that they come alongside and help families like, like yours and mine. And so before we get there, one of the ways Lifeline is trying to help the families is through parent coaching.

And so are you facing challenges and and looking for effective strategies to create positive change in your family? Lifeline's parent coaching program offers personalized relationship focused guidance for any family, whether you're an adopted family, foster family, or a biological parent. Our sessions are based on trust based relational intervention and the Connected Families Framework. So you'll hear a lot more about that here in just a minute. But essentially, we provide proven tools to help strengthen your connection with your child.

Typically, the sessions are 45 to 60 minutes long and can be conducted via an online platform. To learn more and to schedule your 1st session today, you can call or you can reach out to lifelinechild.org backslash coaching, or you can see our show notes. And and our heart really in that is come alongside parents and and to help parents. And one of the people I know in the world that has the heart and God's given the heart to come alongside parents and to help them and to help their families is is Lynn Jackson. And, you know, formally, my introduction of Lynn is that she has over 25 years of experience as an occupational therapist.

She's a speaker, a certified coach, a podcaster, an author. She's written several books, including some work with her husband, Jim, who is is fantastic. And I'll just tell you, Jim married up. So we're getting the better half of today. Please tell him I said that, Lynn.

But, you know, Lynn Lynn's heart really is, to help parents. And she's helped thousands of parents to learn to be peaceful, purposeful, and confident. Back in 2002, she and Jim founded Connected Families. That's a ministry that helps parents to learn to embody God's grace in the midst of family life. And so, Lynn Jackson, welcome to the Defender podcast.

Glad you're here.

I'm glad I'm here too. I'm sorry. I just burst out laughing before I was even introduced. I think that's not good podcast protocol.

Oh, you know, it's okay. We don't we do a lot of things that are not good

podcast protocol here. So we're we're fine with all that.

We're just we're just home folks that protocol here. So we're we're fine with all that. We're just we're just home folks that are just, you know, carrying on conversations here. But, just really so appreciate you and Jim and, and the ministry that that you've put together and connected families. And, you know, one of the things that I can say about connected families and I think I told you told you guys this the first time we sat down and were able to spend some time and share a meal together.

You know, for a long time, we had worked through all kinds of parenting books and materials and things. And, you know, of course, TBRI and all these, you know, all these interventions for, you know, for for kids that have come from hard places and kids with trauma. And, you know, you have all these thoughts and things that are swimming around in your mind and all these techniques that you are supposed to use and try and all that. And and just one of the things personally that I always had been, just always been a little bit of a I don't know, a little bit of a sticking point for me is knowing that a lot of those things were drawn from from very solid and even very biblical sources and where they came from, just not having a real biblical framework to to kind of organize all that. And one of the, you know, one of the things that I love about Connected Families and has really been more impressive and impactful to me is is the framework that that you've constructed and the fact that it's it's inherently biblical.

Like it's a it's a God based rationale for while this stuff works. And I think it goes back to what Karen Purvis said. You know, I love it when science catches up to God. It's really true that none of the stuff we're talking about is is anything but, you know, from God's mind and from God's heart. But you and Jim have just done such a beautiful job of helping us to be able to see that.

And so, first of all, I just want to say thank you for doing that. And I'm going to ask you a question that's not in the questions that I sent you first, but I'd love it if you could just Oh,

no. I know. I haven't been like Oh, yes. But before we

get before we get talking to back about back school, I really just love it. If you could just give a just a brief like what is it what did God do to get you and Jim in the place to see what grace based parenting looks like and and to have the conviction that this is something you need to share with people?

It really started in our early parenting years. And, you know, my bio really should be based off of that I was a stressed out parent. We had Jim's got a lot of h ADHD going, and my mom said I was the liveliest and messiest of 5 kids. And we had a strong willed eldest and I was this kind of became sort of this perfectionist and it was just a a brouhaha for craziness. And so, the the hard line punitive Christian parenting was just not working for us.

Yeah. And I was learning about sensory function and kids' brains at the same time that Jim was working with at risk teens, many who had come from a variety of hard places and traumatic experiences in foster care. And and we really believe that God's grace was so vibrant and real for these kids and how it was captured in current parenting materials in the faith based community was not a good conduit for that grace. And so we wrestled and wrestled and really landed in, a very what we felt like was a solidly biblical way to bring God's grace and truth to parents, and so that they could become a conduit for God's grace and truth and be transformed in the process. So as many of the parents that that we had worked with were really hurt themselves by previous trauma or parenting or whatever, and so to see families be healed with God's grace was really, exciting for us, and people kept telling us we need to get this out there.

But it started, you know, kinda with people the kids we were working with outside the home, but then our own kids, and the struggles that we were having at the time.

Well, and and you and I were talking before we actually hit record on the podcast today. And we live in a world where parents are stressed out and and it's parenting is hard. And but I think the I think emotionally, most of us that are that are in that place of parenting, if we're honest, and particularly right now at the beginning of the school year again, it's just compounded. And and so, you know, even today, there was there was some there was some news that was pretty, you know, pretty telling about that. Right?

Mhmm. Yep. The surgeon general, doctor Vivek Murthy, said had a press release about that parenting stress was an epidemic in our country. And he said 41% of parents say most days, they are so stressed they can't function, and 48% say their stress is completely overwhelming compared to other adults. And then he went on to talk a lot about guilt and shame, and that leads to a vicious cycle with more guilt and more stress and more shame.

And so, you know, and then when you consider adoptive parents have, you know, they're carrying some of the stress of the trauma that their children have been through, and then school starting is extra stress. And it's just a perfect storm for parents to and kids to really struggle.

Well, and that's not God's design nor God's intent. And and I think that's the thing. You know, we sometimes we get in the in the midst of all this and and we begin to think of that as being normative. And like we think that's that's just the way it is or that's just the way it's supposed to be. And and, you know, and truly it's not.

And I think right now at a time when, you know, when a lot of parents feel very overwhelmed and, you know, they're in the middle of a lot of changes and new routines and things that just really have stored up. Like we all we're all looking for help. And so how can the Connected Families Framework help parents to, you know, manage this time? And that's full of so many transitions and so many kind of crazy, difficult things. Like how can the sort of the basic framework that we've talked about, how does that help?

Well, it it helps because, parents tend to just wanna go right to, wow, I've got this problem. How do I fix it? What's the right consequence? And that is often where parents get really stuck because especially children who come from hard places, they're more likely to feel ashamed. They're more likely to think if you give them a consequence, they're bad, and so they have to fight that consequence.

And so the framework helps you to back up and really take a look at your whole relationship with your child and starting with what's going on in you. And that is actually really freeing because it's the best way to get unstuck from unhelpful patterns. So, the the the basis or the base of this model, which hopefully we can put a a link in the show notes of how to get to that model, but, it starts not with how I interact with my child, but with me, with my we call it foundation. What's going on in me? And this is in a big picture sense of, wow, what's the stresses in my life right now that's causing me to be edgier?

It might be just what am I, you know, what what do I believe the role of a parent is that they should have immediately obedient kids? Well, that's gonna set up instant power struggles. You know? So going down to that kind of a level of really taking a look at our hearts, bringing that to the Lord, and it was one of the, we have numerous adoptive parents on our staff, but the one that, was my cohost to the Sensitive and Intense Kids online course, she added this question to the key questions of this foundation level. It's what's going on in me and then what do I need from the Lord?

That's a key question because we're not called to ever give anything to our kids that we don't receive. And so as we do this, as we tune into what's going on in me, it's not a it's not an opportunity for shame of like, oh, I'm just being critical again. You know? I I could get stuck in that in my early years, but it's like I'm overwhelmed. I'm anxious that my child won't have any friends when he goes to school.

I'm anxious that he'll be super discouraged because he might struggle the most in his class. You know, so okay. Lord, what do I need in that anxiety from you? And going down to that level can really be a game changer and it's it's like the Lord invites us into his care in a deeper way so that we can pass on that care to our kids. And as we do this work, we begin to communicate a message to our kids.

You are safe with me. I'm taking a look at my baggage so I can protect you from my baggage. You are safe with me. And then there's lots of practical ways that we equip parents to to be safe with their kids when that instantaneous heat of the moment happens. But that's that's just so like I said, that's foundational.

And many of the adoptive parents on our staff have told us, yep, we're still working on foundation. We're still working on safe. You are safe with me. And that's, like, all the messages that that these kids need, it starts with that. Because if they don't have get that message from us, they are safe with us, then they won't believe us when we get to the next level, which is you are loved.

Well, and there's so many things that our kids are facing, honestly, that, you know, that all go back to that that lack of felt safety and and, you know, that that lack of the fact that they had someone who, you know, who cared for them. And in in those crucial formative moments when when God was wiring their brain and and and was, you know, the the work was going on. And so, you know, we we spend a lot of the the rest of our time sort of, you know, trying to, you know, trying to work in what, you know, what what didn't happen at a, you know, a particular point in time. But the the reality is and I think, you know, one of the things that that you guys have really helped me to focus on in this is, that that there really is an opportunity. And this is not just for kids.

It's an opportunity for us to really experience God's grace. And in the midst of our parenting, as we realize that this is this is not about just giving to our kids. It's really is and maybe primarily is about on some level receiving from the Lord and and just being able to be honest and aware before God of those things that we that we desperately need from him and and that we know that we ask of him. And so I think that's a that's a beautiful part of the framework. And again, that's that's what I was saying.

And that's that's what I want folks to understand as we talk about connected families is, is there is there is a God based biblical, you know, biblical grounded reason for the way these things are are shaped and the way they're organized, even with in this framework. This isn't just this isn't just good psychology. It's not just good practical advice. At the end of the day, it's advice that first comes from the from the heart of God. And that's that's the thing that I, you know, that I love the most.

Lynn, one thing just, you know, you were alluding to a course that you guys have and you were talking about some some resources. And so I want to make sure that we say this several times during the podcast, but the place where people can find that is is on your website. Why don't you why don't you just give folks a little bit of an orientation to the Connected Families website and just, you know, tell them what can be found there?

Mhmm. Well, it's connectedfamilies.org, and we have almost 200 podcasts. We have, of 500 articles. So whatever topic you're looking for, we've probably got it. We really have felt called to the parents of kids that struggle more because of our backgrounds, with Jim with at risk teens and me as an OT with sensory and behavioral challenged kids.

That's kind of become our niche. So we've got a lot of stuff on sensory processing, a lot of stuff on emotional regulation. We've got a resource, 60 ways to get kids moving and laughing. We've got a huge article on, emotional regulation, resilience. We've got an anger ebook.

We've got online courses, and they're all full of these thoughtful biblical but science based. So we we say that we are grounded in scripture and informed by science.

Yeah.

Because like like Karen Purvis said, you know, science is catching up with Bible about some of these principles. So, lots of resources. And I would like just to mention, as we're on this topic of foundation and what's going on, in your link will or in your show notes, we'll put a link for, my co host who is an adoptive parent, just a little extra video that she recorded for our sensitive and intense kids course, talking about her journey from when I was parenting on empty. And it's just this beautiful 7 minute video that we know will encourage you, and so we'll have a link in our show notes about that.

That's awesome. I can't wait to see that. I haven't seen that. And I I want to. So I can't wait to can't wait to go grab that video and check that out.

And yeah, I just want to really commend the Connected Families website. I mean, we we can't commend this ministry enough, but I really want you to understand that the website is just a wealth of all kinds of things that are helpful in the moment as, you know, as a parent. And so they're they're just all sorts of little articles and tidbits and things that are that are really sprinkled with a lot of both godly and practical wisdom. And well, I think godly wisdom always is practical. But but but but really, you know, things that are things that are really helpful in the moment as we're as we're dealing with specific sorts of challenges with our kids or in the way that we respond to them.

And and so then maybe as we as we continue our conversation, just let's talk about some of the what is kind of some of the common themes, some of the some of the sort of run of the mill things that parents experience during this time of the year as, as they're facing their kids returning back to school.

Well, one of them actually deals with the next level of framework, which is to connect and express that message, love no matter what. You know? How do you maintain that connection with a child whose attachment is kind of fragile, and they can sort of forget about you, as as the the day wears on at school. And so there's just you know, some of the adoptive parents I've coached with have they just have come up with specific ways to kinda keep that little thread of connection going. Like, if it's a girl, sending them to school with just a little piece of mom's jewelry that they can stitch it with and remember or, dad's aftershave on a, a hair binder around their pencil so they can smell that, pictures of the families, taking a quick picture of them when they leave and talking about how you'll be looking at that that picture during the day.

So that's just a little example of applying this principle of connection to that challenge of maintaining attachment through the day. But another really unique thing about, the framework is just that message. You are so there's the kind of the you're loved and delighted in, but there's also your love no matter what. Yeah. And, a lot of times because kids who come from hard places, they they have diminished executive function, and they're more prone to ADHD, and they may struggle with some learning disabilities, and so school success is often elusive to these kiddos.

But there's a really important principle here and that is that poor grades are an opportunity for attachment and building security. So, when our oldest son struggled, and he was, like, off the charts ADHD, super smart kid, but really disorganized and some emotional regulation issues. And, so we got the the the grades home Q1, and 2 of them were really shiny. So we had 3 kids, 3 paper report cards on the table. It was back in those days, and one that was, kind of multicolored, shall we say.

So I was ready to go, okay. We need to talk to him because he's got more potential than this. You know? And my wise husband, who had a bit of a learning disability himself, said, you know, I've got a better idea, and I instantly knew. And this is where foundation kicks in.

You know? You readjust your expectations. You just slow down, you step into, how hard it is to be your kids, and you just take a breath and you give grace. So he came up with this idea. I said, perfect.

We invite the when the kids come home from school, we go, hey, kids. We're gonna have a report card party tonight to celebrate the fact that we love you absolutely unrelated to the grades on the table. Well, you can imagine which child enjoyed that party the most. Sure.

Sure. Right.

We had Nerf guns, ran around the house, hooting and hollering, made popcorn, just, like, had a great time, and then at the end, we said, so, Daniel, we we do kinda wanna talk about these, grades and just see where we can encourage you. When would you like to do that? Oh, not tonight. Oh, okay. Well, how about tomorrow after school?

Yeah. Let's do it then. But he was so open to our coaching. And what question do you think we started with? Well, what's about these bad grades here?

No. We said, which grades do you feel the best about? And he kept wanting to go back to the failure ones. No. No.

No. Let's learn from this success here. What did you do in this class? How did that go? And so that, became just a it was like a defining moment in his life and in our relationship with him.

And at times in the future when, you know, his ADHD or whatever, we get the best of him and he'd really blow it, he would say, there's a report card party for me in this. No. He would say, there's a popcorn he called it the popcorn party for me in this, and it gave him the courage to go on. So that's just, you know, as your child struggles with academics, with homework, with all these things, to view that as a precious opportunity to build the the belief that they are truly loved no matter what, which is a really elusive belief for them and to celebrate that. And, yeah, just lean into what the Lord would have for you in that possibility.

Well, and and for those of us that are that are parents of of kids that have experienced trauma or or struggle with an insecure attachment, you know, that's even that's even more important. Oh, for sure. Because truly, they're, you know, we're, we're backfilling a pretty dramatic hole. And, you know, and there's there's a wound that's there. And and so, you know, I think go a little bit further in that with the intentionality of how parents can can really use trauma sensitive approaches to to be able to really help during the school year.

I mean, you get you have a great example there. But, you know, what are the kind of things that that moms and dads that have kids that come from the hard from hard places can, you know, can begin to do?

Mhmm. Well, taking that that idea and applying it to lots of different situations can be helpful. So you don't just have one report card party and then leave it. You know? As things go well, whether it's they scored a goal in the on their on the soccer field or they did finally come home with a decent grade or whatever, then you can go, oh, wow.

Looks like your hard work really paid off. Does this mean I love you more? And then wait for them to answer. And then when things don't go well, so maybe they have a brouhaha with a sibling. This was really hard, wasn't it?

Oh, you guys were so upset with each other. And there was a lot of loud yelling. Does this mean I love you less? And just asking that because the the task of building that emotional security, like you said, it's huge, whether you're thinking building emotional security or filling a hole or whatever the image in your head is, it's a big task. And so looking for opportunities to weave that through the day, I think is is is a significant piece of trauma recovery.

And then just the the routines of blessing. So, an adoptive mom in our in our community actually, our executive dress director has a great post on the impact of praying the Aaronic blessing over her kids as they headed out the door and making a tradition out of that in, you know, every time they went off to school, then finishing their day with a time of recording affirmations and successes, and just like for younger kids, drawing it out, for older kids, asking, So what did you feel good about today? Well, I I can't think of anything. Well, I noticed that when when you were doing your math, you did, like, 2 or 3 problems in a row. How did you do that?

What was helpful? Did I do anything that was helpful? Because, boy, that was you really got some work done there. So ending bookending their day their days with that affirmation and connection is really helpful, and particularly as they're going off to sleep, that influences how they sort memories from the day. So their arousal state as they're drifting off to sleep will if they're still if you're filling that with connection and affirmation, then that prunes tends to prune out the negative memories and strengthen the positive memories from the day.

So those are just a couple of, examples. There's there's so many on our on our website of just different forms of play that can be helpful for kids. Child led play is we've got a a podcast and an article on that, and that can really that's kind of in the next principle that we haven't gotten to, the coach principle. You're called incapable, just a way to reverse the the stress of the day when they come home. There's specific things you can do to really empower them and, you know, heal their sense of being a victim and being discouraged and and such.

So

well, I think, you know, Lynn, one of the things that just kind of overall that, you know, even as you talk through the principles that you've talked about so far is there's a there's a thread through everything that you've said. And I feel like this is a refrain that we that we talk about a lot here on, you know, on the Defender podcast. And it's just the idea of intentionality that one of the things in parenting kids that have come from hard places, one of the things that the Lord calls us to in that is a higher degree of intentionality That, you know, that that the hurt that got us to this point, just requires the fact that we have to be a little more thoughtful, and we have to be a little more engaged. And and, you know, we have to be a little more attentive in that. And that, and, you know, that can be tiring sometimes for parents, honestly.

So, you know, always sort of have to be on. But those are the places, too, I think, where you where you rely on God's grace and you're you know, you're aware of of God's provision in, you know, being able to be that and being able to give that to your kids. One of the things that I love that that you guys do that is that's a piece of that intentionality is thinking about the way that discipline factors into the whole equation of being intentional with our kids. And so you you have a you have a course called discipline that connects that is that's really aimed at helping families to to think about even, you know, even in the things that we would think about, you know, quote unquote, being the hard things or being the bad things or whatever, you know, maybe we have built up in our own mind that those are really just other opportunities, to to be intentional and, you know, to help our kids to, you know, to understand all these things that you're talking about in the framework. Right?

Oh, yeah. For sure. So we've got the just to to review for people that are are listening and can't see a little picture, we've got the foundation, which communicates you're safe with me. We've got connect, which communicates you're delighted in, you're loved no matter what. We've got coach, which communicates you are called and capable, and we have correct, which communicates you're responsible for your actions.

And the, you know, the course that you talked about, discipline that connects with your child's heart, can turn discipline from this thing that is shaming to something that really can bind your heart together with your child. And we talk a lot, and this is where it gets what I feel like is really gospel based. We talk about building a culture of reconciliation in the home, especially with parents leading the way. And, you know, modeling repentance, modeling reconciliation, and then celebrating the gospel when they do. So, a great example is just really leaning into the power of do overs to change brain function.

So instead of administering a punishment, parents begin to model do overs, and then celebrate at the end. It's like, Oh, that felt so much better because that's how I really would have wanted to do it. I'm so grateful for God's grace. Wow. Did that feel better to you?

High 5 to us. And so modeling that numerous times, it takes the shame out of discipline and it says God's kindness is meant to lead us to repentance. So when we repent and in Acts it also talks about that we want to repent so that times of refreshing may come from the Lord. So if we end a discipline, whether it's us repairing a mistake or it's a child, if that ends with shame, it's kind of denying the gospel. And so we can end those times with connection and joy and thanksgiving and, you know, finding something to affirm in what the child did in the process of putting their hearts back together with someone that they hurt.

Wow.

Lynn, I could I could listen to that wisdom all day long. And the primary reason is because I need to hear it. I need to be reminded of it. I need to be, you know, refreshed in it. And and ultimately, again, what I what I love so much about the the work that you and Jim and and the team at Connected Families have done and continue to do is, is to bring just very practical ways of applying biblical wisdom to, you know, to our parenting.

And and the cool thing is that I actually have the opportunity to be able to listen to a whole lot more of that and participate with a whole lot more of it because your website is full of it and, and is just filled to the brim with articles and videos and podcasts and all that sort of all those sorts of things. And you have a number of courses and services that you provide for families. And so we want to commend that to people. And so, again, that's connected families.org is where you can find all that. And I believe I'm right in this, so hold me accountable.

But for the low, low price of someone's email address, they they unlock the opportunity to to just find a ton of that stuff. And you guys won't spam them or anything. We, you know, we know that.

We aim at a once a week email. You know? Occasionally, at the end of the year, there's more, but you can opt out of those extras and stay on the main email. And yep.

And what you get in that is you get a you get a regular digest of things that are, you know, things that are helpful and things that are important. And so we want to commend that to you and remind you that that that's, you know, that's where you can find all the resources from connected families. You can find out about the framework that we're going to we're going to show you a link to on the show notes. But then also, there are a ton of other other things that are there. Well, Lynn, as we as we finish up what, you know, maybe give one more piece of practical advice for for families that are looking to be more intentional in their parenting during the school year.

One one nugget of wisdom that you leave folks with today to say focus on this?

I think a key challenge time for any kid from child from a hard place, any child often, is that transition home from school. They've been working hard to hold it together all day. The tendency in any child is to do better for other people than for their own parents, but that's particularly true in an adoptive family. So there's gonna be a tendency for them to just come home from school. They've worked hard to hold it together all day, and then they unload on you.

And so to be really thoughtful about how to sort of reverse the stress of the day, is is really strategic because that sets the tone for the rest of the evening. So, like, I'll just throw in an example, and we do we'll put in the show notes an article about after school transitions. But, so maybe you greet them with a smoothie, with a straw so they they are sucking resistive, you know, getting resistive suck on the straw, which is calming, and then you kinda, you know, ask a few little questions where you stay lighthearted with the smoothie, and then you might go do a big muscle activity to just detox having to sit still, all day, and then you might offer, you know, it's like, would you like a back rub or, some some pillow squishes or something or, you know, you can kind of do some sensory diet work. Folks may be familiar with that, and then finally, get help them to regulate to the place where they could actually do some homework, And then you also intersperse those sensory breaks into the homework, because you don't wanna set up a situation where the child just is unloading off, you know, big emotions, as soon as they're getting off the bus, and then that taints and discourages the whole rest of the evening.

Yeah. That's great advice. And I think the, you know, sometimes in the busyness and the pressure of all the things that, you know, that come, we we as parents also have a tendency to sort of pack our our schedules and our kids schedules to the point that we don't really allow ourselves space to be able to do those sorts of things. And and so part of the part of the reality and part of what we have to remember in this is that we we have to create the space to be able to to do some of these things. And that's that's just part of parenting a child that comes you know, comes from a hard place.

And and so, Lynn, thanks so much. It's just always good to sit down with you. It's always always, just a refreshing conversation and thankful for you and for Jim and for all the folks at Connected Families. And we appreciate our our partnership. We value it greatly.

And I'm just really appreciative for you to sit down with us today.

Well, I'm grateful to be asked. We love our partnership as well. We've always felt that it had a special spot in our heart for adoptive parents. And like I said, we have a lot of them on our staff. Right.

So thank you so much also, Rick.

Absolutely. Well, hey, we thank you for joining us as well here on the Defender Podcast. We'll be back here again next week, and we'll be considering ways that we can, come alongside families and children that are that have come from hard places and and just find ways to serve in in ways that glorify the Lord and and ultimately, fulfill God's purpose for us to, care for the vulnerable around us. And so I'm Rick Morton for the Defender Podcast, and we'll see you again soon.

Thanks for listening to the Defender Podcast. If you enjoy making this podcast a part of your weekly routine, we'd love for you to take a moment to subscribe, rate, and review the Defender podcast to make it easier for more people to find. For more information on how you and your church can partner with Lifeline, visit us at lifelinechild.org. If you want to connect with me, please visit herbynewoldot com. Follow us at lifeline on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter by searching for Lifeline Child.

You can email us directly at info at lifelinechild.org. Beloved, will you allow god to use the gospel to you to impact the life of a child? Please contact us because we are here to defend the fatherless. We'll see you again next week for the Defender podcast.