Welcome to the Defender Podcast, a resource to help mobilize and equip the body of Christ to manifest the gospel to orphans and vulnerable children. This podcast is a ministry of Lifeline Children Services, and I'm your host, Herbie Newell.

Hey, everybody. It's Wednesday, February. I'm Rick Morton, and this is the Defender Podcast. So folks, today we have a we have a really special treat. I'm excited, today to to welcome a guest who many of you know through, her books and podcasts and conferences and all kinds of places where, where she has contributed into the community of, foster and adoptive parents and and into the conversation.

But today, I'm gonna be sitting down for a conversation with Jamie Finn. And we're gonna talk about faith, we're gonna talk about family, we're gonna talk about foster care, we're gonna hit a little bit of all of it. Before we get there, just give you a little intro and a little bio on Jamie. She is the author of Foster the Family. She is also the founder and president of Foster the Family, the organization.

She has hosted the Real Mom podcast. She's the founder and owner of Good and Better. She also is the creator or behind Field, and we're gonna talk a little bit about that and just kind of that new venture and and the things that, that that the Lord has allowed her to do there. And so, of course, you know, in addition to all those things, Jamie's a sought after speaker for retreats and conferences and events for foster and adoptive parents. Her social media accounts really give a glimpse into the real life of a foster parent, which, you know, sometimes we're not great at showing that, right?

We tend to get a little idealistic or idyllic on social media. And, you know, really, she's been an encouragement to thousands of foster parents. Jamie is the mom of six through birth, through adoption, through foster care, and she and her husband, Alan, along with her kids live in New Jersey. All right, so Jamie, welcome in to the Defender podcast. We're really excited to have you and really excited to be able to talk about your ministry.

And, you know, at Lifeline, we're really passionate about showing the love of Jesus to kids in foster care, that are caught up in the system. And through our foster care ministry, we wanna equip families with gospel centered training to help them make a lasting impact. If you've ever thought about fostering or wanna support foster families in your community, Lifeline has a ton of resources, training, and support that can help you get started. Or if you're there, we'd love to help you continue the journey. You can find those things at lifeline child backslash foster, or you can check our show notes to to find all the resources that we've created.

But we're not here to talk about the resources we've created. We're here to talk about Jamie and the resources that she's created. And so, Jamie, thanks for being here with us.

Oh, I'm so happy to be here. And I'm actually also happy to talk about the Lifeline resources because we love we love Lifeline at Foster the Family and at Filled, and and we're grateful for you guys.

So Well, it's been fun. It's been fun to get to know you guys. It's been fun to to be able to be, you know, co laborers and walking together. And we were talking off air about, before we got started about Ann Maura Hinton and some of the things that we do and Absolutely. Educational therapy.

And we're we're just excited about some of the things that we feel like we can contribute to the conversation. But we love so many of the things that you've been able to bring to bear into the lives of foster and adoptive parents. And and so maybe the place to start is let's go all the way back to the why. Love to just kind of hear about your journey, you know, what led you into foster care and adoption, and then, like, how did you get to this crazy place of

That is a great question.

Authoring a book and Yeah. Doing a podcast and conferences and all these things that

that Yeah. You have that are,

you know, that are all part of your world these days.

Yeah. Well, I'm grateful for any time I can just sort of reflect on the goodness and sovereignty of God in our story. So I'm happy to talk that. We've been foster parents for about eleven years now. And when we came into this, it was really eager, lots of enthusiasm and love and lots of ignorance and arrogance.

And, you know, we're gonna save the world. We're gonna save the kids. And I'm just grateful that God rescues us when we come in with great intentions and lots of other stuff. So we have welcomed 30 kids in our home, in our journey. And one tiny tweak, I think you had a little bit of an old bio.

We have seven kids in our home right now. Wow.

Yes. Yeah. That's awesome.

Our two biological children, three adopted from foster care and two that we're in the process of adopting right now. And, you know, becoming foster parents was sort of the invitation to live mission at home as, like, an average American family. I think, like, a lot of girls, a lot of young people growing up in the church, it was like, I I wanna be a missionary. I wanna go save the world, and I'm gonna go over there and do it. And then we found ourselves, you know, almost ten years into marriage and and, one boy, one girl sort of happily ever after life and just was faced with this real conviction of what does it look like to live on mission, to, live for the glory of God and and live in a way that does justice and loves mercy and walks humbly and and really sees our home as a jumping off point for mission, as a place where mission can happen within our doors.

So I approached my husband and told him that I thought that we should become foster parents, that god wanted us to become foster parents, and he was very confident in his exact opposite answer. As I've learned, is about, you know, officially a 90% statistic of how it Right. And, but he's a man of conviction even if, the enthusiasm wasn't there the way that it was for me. He went to God's word and just really did become convicted that we are all called into this in one way or another. And so the question went from, are we supposed to do this, to how are we supposed to do this?

What does it look like for us to follow the very clear commands and invitations of scripture to engage with the orphan, the vulnerable, the fatherless? And because my heart was so inclined to welcoming kids into our home, he was like, alright. One kid, one time. That's the deal. I

Jamie, I'm immediately wanna meet Alan. Like, I'm telling like, we are we are we are the same person.

I

mean, what And so I just wanna, like, I just wanna connect because I so resonate with that part of your story.

Yep. That's right. And, 10% of the time, I have the husband come up to me and say, that was actually me, 10%. But 100% of the time, it's one person ready, one person, you know, on the gas, and the other putting on the brakes. And I actually think that that's part of God's good design to to help us create boundaries.

You know? If if it was just two bleeding hearts who are, like, let's go save the world, man, we have faced burnout quite a few times on this journey, and that's with a husband who is, you know, helping put on the brakes. So I I'm grateful that that he makes us different, that he gives us different personalities and burdens so that there's just a little bit of balance in our life.

Well and I love the part of that that you said that Alan was driven back to God's word.

Yeah.

And and that's, like, that's my story. And it's, you know, being worn out and kinda knowing what it was about. Like, I didn't have to go figure out what the conviction was or where it was coming from, but it was like, I gotta sort this out. Like, how is this a gospel thing? How is this and putting those things together have, you know, at times inspired great confidence to move forward when there's, you know, great uncertainty and, quite honestly, you know, things that felt like terror sometimes.

But the confidence of God is in this is Yeah. You know, is so important. And so I really thank you for for pointing that out. But Yeah. I think that's something we just wanna, you know, we wanna say over and over and over to people that are that are trying to step in, you know, to the journey and and figure out what it is that God's called them to do.

And this is, you know, like, understand what it is that god is is saying that all of us are to be for.

That's right. Yeah. K. Yeah. And that that deeply rooted conviction harries us when everything around us looks like, what did we do here?

Yeah. This fail. You know? We have to have something that supersedes our feelings, what we might call success. Right.

It needs to be strong enough to hold us. And so I'm actually grateful. You know, bleeding hearts, they're they're not gonna last. If if there isn't something that that that bleeding heart is deeply rooted in, it needs to be theological. And

so

I'm grateful that that there's always been that foundation of this is our why, and this is our how. The gospel is what calls us into this, and the gospel is what sustains us and holds us when it it's way harder than we thought it was gonna be.

Well, and we we swim in such a cultural soup around us that tells us go with your feelings.

Right.

You know? And there's so many, you know, there's so many of the conversations, quite honestly, that are even around adoption and foster care right now that are that are feelings that are, you know, it's about adults and it's about decisions we make based on our feelings. And and so I I think it's important in Yep. In our circle as in the body of Christ to say our feelings betray us. They they lie to us.

Okay. That's right. You know? And and so I've I've started to really tell adoptive parents when we do do our conference here, something that was really important for us and something that we came to was just the realization that, you know, when you look at that pattern in the Old Testament where whenever God showed up, he always told Israel to build an altar. Like, he always told the people.

And, you know, that's nothing but a pile of rocks. Like, it's it's just but it's but what God understood because he wired us is that there was going to be a future time when they needed to walk by that pile of rocks and remember that the presence of God was with them. Absolutely. And, you know, and they didn't have the Holy Spirit. They they were you know, it was episodic for them, and so it was crucial.

But I think for us, you know, even with the Holy Spirit and, you know, even with God's indwelling presence, we fight this war of, you know, what we feel and what we think and what other people feel and what other people think and yeah. And so I really appreciate you, you know, saying that. And I don't wanna get you off track. We wanna hear the rest of the story. Sure.

Sure. But I think, like, that's a part of your story that I think is is one of those things that people can really resonate with. But I think it also has been the theme for a lot of the things that you've done along the way are grounded in this idea of, you know, like, it it's God first. It's his word first. It's his call.

You know, it's it's our missional response to God being a missional God.

That's right.

You know? And so, anyway, keep going. Sorry.

No. No.

That's no. No. No. Do not apologize. That is my heart resonates with all of that.

And I'm glad that you see that as a reflection of of our story in our ministry because that is the case. I mean, it started with, someone at my, you know, thousand person church asking me to write something for our church, newsletter. And I was the only person to write it because I was the only foster family in our church, and we were a few months in. So I write something out of this place of sort of ignorance and arrogance, write it. And God is is good, and he does things that we could never do.

And so he read it, this this guy at church with the newsletter and said, you should put this online. Put it online. Millions of people saw it. All of a sudden, I have this platform that I'm not ready for. And so I just make the commitment.

I'm not gonna pretend to know anything. I'm just gonna sort of live out loud, and I'm gonna share the things that God is showing me and teaching me and the ways I'm messing up and the lessons I'm learning as I go. And so that's what I started doing. And really very quickly, like you hinted at, just saw that there are so many people like me who so desperately wanted to apply gospel truths and biblical wisdom to their journey of foster parenting. Mhmm.

And I was in God's word every morning wrestling. God, I know you're here. I know your word is living and active. That the words foster care are not in here, but that there are truths about your character, that there are promises you have for us, and you are speaking to me specifically as a foster parent. And when we go to him and we just say, god, show us show me my sin.

Show me your character. Man, that is a prayer he loves to honor. And so it just became, again, me me stumbling and struggling and wrestling and just sort of lighting the path that that his word was lighting for me as I went to the word. And so Oh, good. Started writing, started speaking, and, you know,

the rest And then there's that crazy effect. Right? Like, you actually like, you're out there. You're writing stuff. You write a book, and all of a sudden people think you know something.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, and, like, praise the Lord. That's that's created a lot of opportunities, and it's been fun to, you know, get to live that life. But but there is that, you know, crazy internal monologue that you constantly are going like, well, I don't I don't know anything. Like, I'm just I'm just in and true.

Yeah. We we just gathered for the field gathering, which is 1,300 foster and adoptive mom, almost of every state, all around the world. And we're driving there, and I'm sitting with my brother. And I was like, I think I'm a con man. I think what is happening here?

Why are all these people showing up? And it is it is just the grace of God, and I think just seeking to live humbly out loud in front of people. And he's created something where where people, women specifically at this and that, just find each other, find just the beauty in being seen and surrounded by so

many others on their journey when in

their day to day life, a lot of surrounded by so many others on their journey when in their day to day life, a lot of the times, they feel isolated and misunderstood. And it's it really is I say the word humbled a lot because I am very aware that 90 of my life is trudging through the mundane of parenting.

Yeah.

But then I get to spend the other 10% of my life just calling people to gospel hope for the air mundane trudging through of parenting as well.

Well and and the truth is that's where that's where the good stuff is. Right? Like, we we get off the tracks when we start to think it is about us.

Yeah.

That And that's at home and, you know, when you're in front of an audience of people or or writing a book or anything else. I mean, I think it's and, you know, I I mean, I've said this probably a hundred times on here, but I I think one of the most valuable lessons that that I learned, Russ Moore said something very profound to me at one point in our adoption journey, and and he he didn't mean it like it's even come to say, but I was I was bellyaching about how hard the process was at the end. There's

a that southern again, bellyache. Right.

There you go. That's right. There's another you don't you don't bellyache.

We don't say that in Jersey.

Do you? In Jersey, you get bellyache.

Yeah.

Well, I you know? And and he said, look. You're gonna learn things about God that you'll have no other way of knowing through this process.

What an invitation.

But what I didn't know was how much of this process just bubbles to the surface the stuff that I'm not like him. And the Lord uses this as such a refining opportunity. And I think when you, you know, when you have that perspective that you're still a work in progress and God is still refining you, it's like, who am I to do this? But, yeah, God's created the opportunity and I love it. And so so fast forward, like, all these hats, all these roles, you're you're you're writing, you started writing blogs, You started, you know, social media.

People got people got there, then lots of people got there. And you've, you know, you've had this, you know, just really kind of you've created a I mean, you haven't created God's created a platform for you. God, you know, he's he's given you the eyes of of people. So, given you the eyes of of people. So I'm gonna ask you I'm gonna I'm gonna throw you a curveball for just a second.

This is in no way anything I told you that I was gonna ask, but I think it's really important.

Mhmm.

Because so much of what you what you write and so much of what you do is is you. It's your own story. It's, you know, your family. And I think one of the things that we, you know, we really try to caution parents about through that process is is finding the balance in in being able to do that, but not oversharing about your kids and and not, you know, co opting their story into, you know, into your story. And I think some of the worst things that we've ever seen are when parents kinda go to social media for relief and release and put things out that they can't ever take back.

Yep. You know? Like, how how do, like, how do you wrestle with that, and how do you find balance in telling the truth Mhmm. But but also, you know, respecting the boundaries for your kids.

Yeah. It's a great question. It's a question I ask a lot. It's a question that if you're sharing anything online, you better be asking. And I like that you used the word wrestling because I I'm not saying I I do it perfectly.

I am wrestling. For me, there's a couple of things. One is it's the benefit of seven kids. And so I can talk pretty broadly and vaguely about, like, the police were at our home last night. And and there's no finger pointing at any specific child.

And if you tried to guess the child, you probably guessed wrong. And so I say a lot of zay. I say a lot of my kids. I'm I'm never airing anyone's stuff, specifically. The other thing is I'm trying to talk a lot about me and my heart Mhmm.

And the truth that applies to the situation. So I'm not talking about my kids' story or their their sob, what they went through, where their parents are right now, how their parents are failing. I'm not talking about their mental health things. I'm talking about how a mom with a child who is hospitalized for mental illness right now, how they need to find hope in in the gospel. And so I I pray that that's what happens, that I'm sharing a lot of me and less of them.

I also pray that I'm showing a lot of the the messy and the the between and the middle without bleeding on people. And that's always something for me is I don't wanna show up every day saying, this is hopeless. I have no hope.

Mhmm.

But I also want people to know, hey. Me, the the Instagram girl that you think has it together.

Yeah.

I'm really fighting for hope right now. I really I woke up this morning, and I wasn't feeling it. And here's here's how I'm fighting to get there. So I'm not gonna wrap this up in a pretty bow, but I'm also not gonna leave you in my hopelessness. I'm not gonna on you and just Yeah.

There. So I pray that there's discernment and wisdom. I pray that that my kids, as they grow, they feel grateful and proud of of how we're sharing, and I'm just submitting and surrendering it all to God. You know, I think when we keep it about ministering to people and not, like, building a brand or building a platform, there's a lot of things I could share that would get me lots of Right. Views and likes.

That's not it. I want I want the mom who is waking up, like, I can't do this, to see me in those same feelings, and and the gospel meeting me there so that I can sort of light the path, for her journey as well. So I love the question, and I hope that I'm hitting it. I hope that I'm pulling it with wisdom.

And I think I think both, you know and I'll just say, I think both the the things that you're creating, but also the things that you're reflecting show that I wanna make a guess, like, I don't know this for sure, but, the online community are not your people. They are your people, but they're not your people. Right? Yep. And and we all, like, we all need that.

We all need, you know, we all need a people where you can go be safe. You need a people where you can, you know, where you can say the things that you're not gonna say online, where you're gonna process and and, you know, and you're gonna kind of have you're gonna go deeper with those people. And I think, you know, looking at the things you're doing with the field conference and things like that, it's it's evident to see that that's that's been an important part of your journey and you're trying to help other people make an important part of their journey.

Yep. That's right.

And I think the thing we're screaming is, like, that's that needs to be the church. Right? Like, that needs to be it like, that we need to be creating that those communities and creating that opportunity within local churches because because that's the like, that's the hub of discipleship. That's the place where, you know, where where people are are connected week in and week out in the body of Christ. And and so, yeah, I just wanna say thanks because I I think the the things that the Lord has put in your hands to create are are things that are incredibly useful tools and and are encouraging the church in in incredibly thoughtful ways.

Let's talk about some of that stuff. Sure. So, so so you started Foster the Family. Tell us about Foster the Family as an organization Yeah. And your work there, and then also just why don't you just fold the book in.

And for folks that don't know you, we we definitely wanna introduce all of this stuff to them.

Yeah. Yeah. So Foster the Family is, a nonprofit that, basically, we show up for foster and adoptive families. And we started here in South Jersey just with a support group that is sort of at the heart of everything that we do is gathering people together in community and mutual care and support. And then the next level of that is then gathering the community around them, the church, and the community to serve them and, mobilizing and equipping them to do that.

So we started in South Jersey, and then some brave friends wanted to start it up in DC. And now we have, five cities where we're providing this sort of more intentional wraparound support. We also have 90 support groups around the country that have a small, video curriculum where you're receiving just a little bit of training, but it is not about training hours. It's not about we wanna teach you something. It's, hey.

Here's a little topic for food for thought kind of for you to consider and now discuss. And and then it's just parents together talking about how it plays out, about the parts of it that are really hard, and and hopefully building these communities where they're receiving mutual care and support from each other where they can show up and be messy and be seen and understood. And so Foster of the Family is just so dear to my heart because, like you're saying, it helps create for others what I have been able to enjoy, which is community, which is my church showing up and supporting me and loving me. And, and that's how it should be. And so we want to help equip churches and communities to love their people well, and we want foster families to live together in community and care.

And branch of that is the field gathering, which we talked about a little bit, which is just, that's my baby. That's what's so dear to my heart because I just want women to hear gospel teaching that that's so real for for their lives to be together and feel seen and have community and then to have some information and be quite interested in their journeys. So and then, yeah, I I love to write. And so I have written two books. My third will be released this September.

It's a a kid's book, a gospel centered trauma perspective on fast foster care for kids in foster care and then also just for kids, like kids in churches, bio kids, and families. And both books are really how do we take gospel truth and apply them to the realities of foster care.

Mhmm.

The first book, Foster the Family, is sort of big picture, topical. Let's look at foster care a little more holistically. And then the second book, Field, is 60 devotions. It's here's a scripture. Here's all that we can eke out of it for for hope and help for our journey.

Well and I love I love what you're doing with Field. I'll be honest, like, I'm not gonna woof anybody. I haven't seen the resource. I haven't seen the book. But I do know the conference, and I know what you're doing there.

And and I think the there are a lot of things that we do in the foster and adoptive community that gather people together. But so much of it, the emphasis is on equipping, and the emphasis on is on the trouble. It's on the, you know, it's on the hurt. It's on the heartache. And we all, like, we all need tools.

We all need resources. We all need stuff. But but we need Jesus a whole lot more than any of that stuff. You know, we we need to be reminded that Jesus is risen. We need to be reminded that, you know, we need eschatology.

We need somebody to remind us that there's a better future and there's a hope out there somewhere and that God has a plan. And I love what you're doing in bringing women together ultimately for that purpose.

That's right. That is it. That's the heart behind it. I mean, we have a few hours of training. We also encourage women.

You might need a nap or coffee with a friend more than you need training. So skip it all if that's what's her view. But the real focus, besides just gathering women together and blessing them, like, we also are like, you need to laugh. You need to enjoy and rest. The real focus is just gospel truth.

We I love that you said anthology. I mean, I have two messages. This is our seventh build. I I preach the same, and I tell them unapologetically, I'm gonna point you to two things over and over. I'm gonna ask you to look back at the gospel, and I'm gonna ask you to look forward to heaven.

I don't know what else we are doing here in this journey if we are not looking back to the gospel and falls right out. So that's what we're doing. And I'm just bringing in my favorite preacher friends, and they're doing it. And then I'm bringing in my friends who experienced foster care and adoption on the flip side, birth mothers, and they're doing it. They're applying the gospel to their story, and and that's it.

We are just we are putting it down people's throat. This is it. This is what will carry you. I hope you remember that, you know, to look at your child's preciousness and to to negotiate their needs, and I hope you know your attachment style and but the gospel. That is our why.

It is our how, and it is what will carry us. So that is our heart, and it it's a privilege to be able to point people to Jesus.

Well, and you're you're doing it incredibly effectively. And and so let me just say, you know, the Lord has has really blessed you in that. I think there are a lot of adoptive moms that listen, you know, to this podcast, and I think the thing we would wanna say to them from Lifeline's perspective is get to know Phil, get to understand what is going on there because I think there there are far too many opportunities, but there are there are far few that was really poorly said. There are few that really, like, encourage you at at the core. And and I think that's so important because, you know, you can teach all the trauma informed principles you want to.

You can know everything about your attachment style and your kids and be incredibly articulate in that and be absolutely, completely, you know, bone dry.

That's

right. And and the, you know, the fact is that the well that we draw from, you know, all that is, you know, is rooted in the gospel. And so I think you're right. We're looking back, we're looking forward, and it's such a, you know, such an incredible thing. So let's let's talk about, goods and better.

And so in addition to, you know, if we don't have enough hats at this point, let's put another one on the table. But in addition to, you know, Foster the Family, the advocacy work that you're, you know, that you're doing as well, podcasts that you've been a part of for a long time that but now the Phil conference, well, yeah, let's just start a company because we have lots of extra time.

Yeah. So there's two things here. One is the same thing of people feeling seen. It is this, like, mini mission in and of itself for a woman to see a shirt that says, like like, I am a biological adoptive foster mom. Those things are crossed out.

They're just mom. Like, I think that there is just something sweet of of belonging somewhere. And so we create, products by foster adopted moms for foster adopted parents, and anyone who just loves mission. But then, really, it's all about just just seeding money right back into the mission. So it was better started as a a way to fundraise for the work, and that's still what it is, is how do we people are gonna use their dollars.

They're going to buy products. And so buy products with purpose, and every product is going to provide for a child entering foster care. And you get to even choose what you want. Like, I want this to go to clothing to a child entering care, or, I want this to go to more family support. And so it's just an another belief that the community around us, wants to support us and that that foster and adoptive parents want belonging and to feel seen.

And it's about, yeah, it's a business that that centers around kind of everything else that we're doing as well.

I love it because of what what you're doing and what you're accomplishing and all that. I I love it even more because of the example. You know? And I I think, you know, something I've said a lot, I mean, part of part of what was in the back of our mind right in orthonology was we just wanted real people to understand that, you know, you don't change clothes in a phone booth and and do that. This is inherently, you know, real people doing inherently small and real things, and God using that to do something significant.

And so putting some products together that, you know, well articulate the heart of foster care and, you know, speak to the heart of, foster and adoptive moms and those sorts of things, like, there are people out there that have that talent. And so I think a a big part of your story just inspires me to say to people, if God's put something in your heart, go for it.

Absolutely. Yeah. I'm gonna amen that so hard because I just can't reiterate enough how deeply average I am. Like, build is so sweet because my the team are my family and friends. They're the ones who put it on.

And there is nothing like a line of people standing up to get a picture with you and and cry and say how you changed your life and then going backstage and your brother saying, well, I was cringing when you said this thing. And it's like, I'm just so average, and so I love that call. It's like, use your averageness wherever Yeah. Are. And, honestly, as especially as a woman, I think Mhmm.

I love to equip women to build where they are, which is a big part of the heart of of our support group initiative. We are like, you live in rural wherever, and you know five foster moms. You don't have to recreate the wheel and create a ministry. We want you to do ministry right where we where you are, and we are going to equip you to start up these little ministries, these little grassroots missions right where you are. That's a a huge part of my heart is just equipping super average people to do really important eternal work.

Yeah. I think a big, hairy, audacious goal of ours is to do something do something with with dads, do something with men.

So that is one of ours as well. That is on our goal for this year, and we actually just announced it filled what we're calling filled together.

Okay.

In September, Jason Johnson and I are launching a similar event Sweet. For couples for married couples. Because, yeah, there are too many, women who are going and receiving all this hope, receiving all this information and kind of surpassing their their husband's, hope and knowledge for the safe situation. And, yeah, we wanna equip the couple, the man, the dad. So Yep.

That's awesome. We'll talk more about that

here in some Literally, just we gotta talk.

We we will talk. We did that was unplanned, folks, but maybe we got some dreaming. Stay tuned. Stay tuned.

You're right.

Alright. So that leads us really, you know, into kind of the last couple of things we'll talk about and and just our hopes for the future. You know, what what are some of those things that, maybe the Lord's kinda, you know, birthed a desire? We certainly, you know, talk about Phil together and couples, and that sounds like a big one. Any others that, you know, you you're ready to sort of publicly pull it off of and no.

I tease it. But but just like your hopes for the foster care community or for the adoptive community.

Yeah. Yeah. So ministry wise, as our family leans more into adoption, you know, in two years, our home is gonna be closed to foster care. And so providing similar sort of gospel resources for that adoption space. So working on writing a book about very similar to Foster the Family about adoption.

But more broadly, just to share about what I hope for this community is sort of a yes and amen of a lot of the things I see happening. We just the the theme of Phil this year was and, which I think, you know, people not in this space are like, wait. What? A conjunction was your theme? Like, let me explain.

Give me a second. My hope for our community is that we we get a lot better at sitting in that and, sitting in the tension. Ten years ago, I think the narrative was adoption saves kids, and it is the the gospel on Earth. And there's joy. And and and then it was shifting shifting to adoptionist trauma, and there's loss.

And there's the bio parents, and we're all in this grief now. And, my heart and prayer and what I I see happening is that we're we get good at the tension, that we hold both of those things, that we say, like, yeah. All of this, it's a tragedy that families are broken apart. It's a tragedy that that sin has wrecked the family, and there is restoration and redemption for souls, for families, for stories. Sure.

Yeah. Oh, there is deep grief that that there's the loss of first parents. There's grief for us that we gave up normal life and and have this now. And there is so much gratitude for the goodness of God in in our lives. So just really learning to to hold that tension and make know which way we're more inclined to.

You know, are we more inclined to mercy or justice? Are we more inclined to, oh, god is sovereign, or, oh, people are responsible? And and knowing how we're inclined so that we can be fighting to lean and and grab the other side of it, but that we we learn to live in the tension and trust god for the parts of this story that are not going to have, the full resolution that we want, that we're looking for until heaven. And that takes a lot of faith. It takes a lot of just trusting God to not see the black and white final picture that we want.

And that's my hope and prayer for our community is that that we get a lot better at the end.

Yeah. I think, you know, we, I tell people part of this is realizing that you just invite a lot of complexity

Got that.

In your life. Right? So much. And I think people are surprised by it. Like, they they don't necessarily, you know, kinda do the math and process.

And and there's, you know, greatest happy days always have a little bittersweet. But the worst of things always, like, there's always a there's redemption. And the fact is that we, you know, we just have to understand that part of what the Lord is living with us in is all of that complexity and all of its, you know, in in all of its facets and pretty good refining ground.

Yeah. Yeah. It takes a lot of humility and a lot of faith. And what's sweet about that is our humility and our faith, they just draw us to god. They they take us out of ourselves and us being self sufficient, and and it just pulls us into a deeper and sweeter knowledge of and relationship with God.

So

So, Jamie, tell folks where they can find where they can find you, where they can find out more about the field conference, where they can, you know, get to your resources. And and just if somebody is just kinda waking up and they're, you know, they're discovering you today, where where are the where are the good places for them to go?

Yeah. I share about faith and family and foster care at foster the family blog, on social media. Fosterthefamily.org is where you can learn more about the organization, and you can learn about filled there, or filledretreat.com.

That's awesome. And y'all, like, I'm telling you, go go to all of them. Go check it out. If you haven't been there, you you need to go there because I think, Jamie, you you continue to catalyze conversations in really profitable ways. And I think the most profitable is pointing us back to the truth of the gospel Yeah.

Over and over and over and over again. And, yeah, we we need that.

Thank you. Thank you. I'm I'm humbled and grateful. It's it's his grace. So thank you for identifying his grace.

Well, we are we're thankful for you. We're thankful for the time that we've had to talk here on the Defender Podcast and just for all the ways that, you know, that our ministry and and yours get to be friends along the way and and one another. And Love it. So it's it's just a it's just fantastic. And, you know, maybe we gotta create another couple of ways for us to collaborate DAs.

But, folks, we, we're thankful that you've joined us on the Defender podcast again, and, and we just wanna, you know, remind you and and continue to, you know, to challenge you that to find the place that God has called you to step in. And that may be in foster parenting, that may be in a, you know, through adoptive parenting, but it but it may be in a host of ways of supporting kids and families and walking with them in profitable ways. We'd love to help you with that as well. You can find us at lifelinechild.org. And we're, we're just we're just thankful to be in this journey and and walking together.

And so, Jamie, thank you for for joining us and and just for, yeah, being being somebody that we can walk the journey with.

Thank you, Rick. It was sweet to just have fellowship with you. I love that part of my job is it's things like this are just encouraging to my heart. So thank you.

Isn't it cool that we just god god gives us a reality where we just get to hang out with people that we probably would anyway.

Just talk about mission in the gospel. It is sweet. Thank you so much.

Alright. Well, thank you. Thank thank everybody for listening, and we'll see you back here again next week.

Thanks for listening to the Defender Podcast. If you enjoy making this podcast a part of your weekly routine, we'd love for you to take a moment to subscribe, rate, and review the Defender Podcast to make it easier for more people to find. For more information on how you and your church can partner with Lifeline, visit us at lifelinechild.org. If you want to connect with me, please visit herbynewell.com. Follow us at Lifeline on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter by searching for Lifeline Child.

You can email us directly at info@lifelinechild.org. Beloved, will you allow God to use the gospel through you to impact the life of a child? Please contact us because we are here to defend the fatherless. We'll see you again next week for the Defender podcast.